Transcript: Rafael Mariano Grossi, IAEA director common, on “Face the Country with Margaret Brennan,” June 28, 2025 through NewsFlicks

The next is the transcript of an interview with Rafael Mariano Grossi, the director common of the World Atomic Power Company, that may air on “Face the Country with Margaret Brennan” on June 28, 2025

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we move now to the Director Normal of the World Atomic Power Company, or the IAEA. Director Normal Rafael Mariano Grossi, welcome to this system.

DIRECTOR GENERAL RAFAEL MARIANO GROSSI: Thanks very a lot, Margaret. Excellent to speak to you back. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Director Normal, there may be such a lot going down. I hope you’ll be able to stroll us thru what you realize. Iran’s overseas minister has mentioned that the wear to their nuclear amenities from the U.S. bombing is vital and critical. We all know Israel has additionally killed quite a lot of most sensible Iranian nuclear scientists. What precisely is Iran’s capacity at this second?

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Neatly, sure, and I believe you’ll be able to select and make a selection any adjective to represent this, however you are going to see that there’s an settlement in describing this as an excessively critical stage of wear. It may be, you realize, described in several techniques, however it is transparent that what took place specifically in Fordo, Natanz, Isfahan, the place Iran used to have and nonetheless has, to a point, features with regards to remedy, conversion and enrichment of uranium had been destroyed to the most important level. Some continues to be status. So there may be, after all, the most important setback with regards to those- of these features. That is- here is transparent. And now the essential issue- the essential factor is, what are the following steps? Now the characterization of the wear, I believe we will, you realize, speculate, and nonetheless, till, after all, the Iranians themselves should move there and sift throughout the, you realize, rubble and take a look at what’s the actual level of the wear. One day, the IAEA should go back. Despite the fact that our task isn’t to evaluate injury, however to re-establish the data of the actions that happen there, and the get admission to to the fabric, which may be very, essential, the fabric that they are going to be generating in the event that they proceed with this task. That is contingent on different, you spot, the entirety is attached. That is- here is contingent on negotiations which would possibly or would possibly not restart, so- so what we see this right here, I believe we’ve got a snapshot of- of- of a program which has been very significantly broken, to cite Dr. Araghchi. And now what we wish to center of attention on is at the subsequent steps.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You discussed there international relations. President Trump has been calling for diplomatic talks with Iran to settle the entire problems across the nuclear program. I do know you had been in common touch with envoy Steve Witkoff. Are you speaking to him now? Will the IAEA be all in favour of any settlement?

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Neatly, in the future we can need to be, as a result of if his efforts, which I toughen wholeheartedly, prevail, this may occasionally come to some degree the place there may be some settlement, some figuring out on issues that Iran will proceed doing, and a few issues the place there may well be an settlement on sure restrictions. And naturally, who’s going to make sure that’s the IAEA so this is the reason we are in consistent touch. Now they wish to reconnect. And it isn’t going to be simple, one can consider, after the stressful occasions that came about. Even for us, you might have observed that I wrote to Overseas Minister Araghchi a couple of days in the past, instantly, I might say, after the cease-fire changed into regarded as to be preserving, and I mentioned to him that we must most likely sit down down and analyze in a steady means the reconnection, the modalities for the inspectors to go- to return. So there’s a stage the place the IAEA isn’t concerned, and here is the direct dialog. What’s the deal? After which, after all, we can be connecting to be sure that that deal stands and it is verifiable.

MARGARET BRENNAN: However to that time, Tehran simply handed a legislation announcing they wish to droop cooperation with the IAEA inspectors. The overseas minister mentioned he had no plans to can help you in my opinion, Mr. Director Normal, into the rustic. Does that imply Iran will utterly block all inspectors? Do these you have already got within the nation have any get admission to?

GROSSI: Neatly, no doubt I’m hoping this isn’t the case. I believe that what the overseas minister mentioned is they had been having a look into this legislation and the way this legislation would affect our actions. I believe it is time- this is the reason it is so essential that we sit down down across the desk and we glance into this. Iran- and I believe no one has put that during query, and I’m hoping no one will, is a celebration to the Treaty at the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Guns, like greater than 190 international locations on this planet. So- so, that suggests that they’ve to paintings with the- with the company. So we need to go- we’ve got been going thru this legislation that they’ve, that the Majles authorized, and we see that they’re speaking about cooperation at the foundation of- of the safety and the protection in their websites. I believe that’s not incompatible with the inspection paintings that should happen. However after all, it isn’t Rafael Grossi and Margaret Brennan discussing this that we’re going to resolve it. I believe we- I’ve to take a seat down with- with- with Iran and glance into this, as a result of on the finish of the day, this entire factor, after the army moves, should have an enduring resolution, which can’t be however a diplomatic one.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So they are no longer kicking- they are no longer kicking out your inspectors at this level?

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DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Now not on this sense. I might no longer say that I’m having a look with passion and with some fear what they have got authorized. However after all, it is their legislation. It’s their parliament. However you realize, right here there are criminal implications. A global treaty, after all, takes priority. You can not invoke an interior legislation to not abide with a global treaty. However Iran isn’t announcing that nowadays, and I believe here is positive. So this is the reason I believe we need to move down into the main points, for the reason that paintings should proceed, in a different way no one could have an concept of what’s going down in Iran. Iran will proceed with a nuclear program, the contours of that are nonetheless to be observed and can be I’m certain, a part of those negotiations, which I’m hoping, can be resuming quickly.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Iran formally reported weeks in the past that they had been going to take measures prematurely of those moves to take a look at to offer protection to their nuclear property. Did they percentage with the IAEA what these plans had been? The place they had been going to stash such things as centrifuges, the machines that assist enrich gasoline? The place they had been going to position the gasoline canisters that experience enriched uranium?

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: No, no, they didn’t tell that- that to us, however on the similar time, there changed into no bodily time, most likely, to do it. Iran, for instance, had introduced to us that that they had a brand new enrichment facility in Isfahan, and we had been going to head at the thirteenth of June to- to test on that facility so that- and the web site has been significantly broken and hit. So this is the reason I say it’s indispensable. We can must, aggravation or no longer, emotions and feelings or no longer, there has to return some degree with- with cool heads. We sit down across the desk and- and spot what- I imply, those protecting measures, after all, it is their proper to offer protection to their property, like some other sovereign country. They may be able to, after all, protect- however they know and there are, I do not wish to get too technical or legalese right here on this dialog, however there are provisions within the agreements we’ve got, no longer handiest with Iran, with any- with any nation. If a rustic at a- at a second, feels that one of the issues we check up on should be safe or no matter, they have got to let us know, and we need to move, and many others., and many others., as you’ll be able to consider. So, this is able to no longer occur on account of the unfolding of the cases, of an army warfare the place, after all, you realize, choices are taken and this isn’t deliberate or introduced, clearly. So now- now it is the time to reconnect and to speak and to speak to one another. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah, however there changed into kind of 400 kilograms, which is just below 900 kilos, of extremely enriched uranium, sooner than the assaults. I do know those are in small canisters and reasonably simple to transport. Do you may have any thought the place that changed into moved, and if it changed into moved sooner than the assault?

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: We presume, and I believe it’s- it is logical to presume that once they announce that they’re going to be taking protecting measures, this may well be a part of it. However, as I mentioned, we do not know the place this materials may well be, or if a part of it would had been, you realize, beneath the assault all the way through these 12 days. So some can have been destroyed as a part of the assault, however some can have been moved. So there must be in the future a explanation. If we do not get that explanation, this may occasionally proceed to be striking, you realize, over our heads as- as a possible downside. So this is the reason I say it is so essential, initially, for Iran to permit our inspectors to proceed their indispensable paintings once conceivable. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Neatly, I ask you about what issues would possibly nonetheless stay, as a result of there is that open query of may Iran dash in opposition to a bomb even now, in the event that they sought after to. If we do not know the place the extremely enriched uranium is and can not account for the entire centrifuges, is that also a chance that they may well be speeding in opposition to a bomb?

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Neatly, you realize, I- we do not wish to be alarmists right here, and I do not wish to be a part of, you realize, a messaging that may be spreading, as I say, alarm. However we wish to be able to determine, to verify what’s there, and the place is it and what took place. Iran had an excessively huge bold program, and a part of it should nonetheless be there, and if no longer, there could also be the self-evident fact that the data is there. The economic capability is there. Iran is an excessively refined nation with regards to nuclear era, as is plain. So you can’t disinvent this. You can not undo the data that you’ve got or the capacities that you’ve got. It is a large nation, is not it? So I believe this must be the motivation that all of us should must remember the fact that army operations or no longer, you don’t seem to be going to unravel this in a definitive means militarily. You’ll have an settlement. You’ll have an inspection machine that may give everyone, everyone within the area and- and- and in different places, the assurances that we can- we will certainly flip the web page.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So up till proper sooner than the moves, the IAEA nonetheless had inspectors, as I comprehend it, going to a few of these websites. There may be been a large number of center of attention right here in The us at the vans and satellite tv for pc pictures of them out of doors of Fordo. What changed into going down in these days sooner than the strike?

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Neatly, as- as you had been pointing available in the market were- there changed into a press release of protecting measures that can have integrated shifting apparatus and materials. We do not know. We noticed the similar pictures that the entire international has observed of those vans, and we do not wish to get into any rush conclusion about it, however it’s, it’s transparent that we want the issues that we forget about, k. And after an inexpensive duration, after the conflict, there must be a procedure that should proceed. Another way the uncertainties will proceed, will proceed to linger on. And here is, you realize, in a base line, no longer just right, and even perhaps fighting a just right settlement, as a result of who’s going to have an settlement the place you do not know what the counterpart in reality has? What are the property that they in reality have after the- after this- this- this army marketing campaign that came about.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So up till those moves Iran- Iran changed into nonetheless disclosing data to the IAEA–

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: –Neatly sure, sure, sure, yes–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –-In sure amounts–

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: There have been deficits. There have been deficits, and we had been referring to these in the- within the sense that there have been some issues that they weren’t clarifying to us. However our inspection paintings was- changed into consistent. Particularly, on this delicate space of the choice of centrifuges and the volume of materials, we had highest view. We did not have view on different issues that we needed to have. However in this one, it was- it changed into whole. It changed into complete. And, after all, nowadays, there is- there may be not anything.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Neatly, Iran wasn’t holding its stockpile of enriched uranium secret. The arena changed into concerned–

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: –No–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –You mentioned you had been curious about it. What do you assume it changed into supposed for? And did you spot anything else that instructed they had been having a look to weaponize?

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: They- let me be transparent right here, as a result of we mentioned, initially, one thing very, essential. They’ve a lot of these features, however for the company, they- initially, they did not have nuclear guns. Ok? This must be mentioned. One will have an overview nationally that they had been shut, k? And I do not get into that, as a result of we, the IAEA, does no longer pass judgement on intentions. The IAEA seems on the actions of a rustic and stories it to the sector. So it’s international locations that- that say, smartly, here is of outrage or no longer. What we had been concerning- what- what I used to be curious about is that there have been different issues that weren’t transparent. As an example, we had discovered lines of uranium in some puts in Iran, that have been no longer the standard declared amenities. And we had been inquiring for years, why did we discover those lines of enriched uranium in position x, y or z? And we had been merely no longer getting credible solutions. If there changed into material- the place is that this materials? So there may well be much more. We do not know. Because of this it’s, I am sorry I am repeating it for the 3rd time, I believe we wish to return. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood, understood. However your commentary and that record that you just gave about a few of these open questions or unanswered questions, the Iranians are pointing to it now, and the overseas minister appears to be form of blaming you for the army moves. He mentioned it wasn’t truthful and truthful, your record. He mentioned, after the amenities, you did not even condemn the strikes- after the moves, I must say. What do you’re making of these criticisms? 

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Neatly- I, to an extent, I perceive. They’ve been beneath assault. However, in reality, who can imagine that this warfare took place on account of a record of the IAEA? And, through the best way, what was- what changed into in that record changed into no longer new, Margaret. We now have been announcing that for a very long time, and in earlier stories as smartly. So, this- possibly it is because it is more uncomplicated, possibly, to criticize a global group or a director common, I do not know, however it isn’t affordable to mention that. And, if anything else, the IAEA, as all the time, has had an excessively truthful overview of the placement. And there have been many, I will be able to guarantee you, there have been many that- that had been announcing to your record, you should say that they’ve nuclear guns, or they’re very on the subject of have nuclear guns. And we did not. We merely did not, as a result of this changed into no longer what we had been seeing.

MARGARET BRENNAN: However you additionally mentioned you could not examine that it changed into a calm program.

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Completely, as a result of we need to see the entirety. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah. 

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: They did- we did not see them. We did not see a program that changed into aiming in that path, however on the similar time, they weren’t answering very, essential questions that had been pending. So this is- here is the reality.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And I respect the nuance right here, as a result of there is such a lot grey. Folks listed here are in search of readability, and there is confusion in america. CBS is reporting that the Protection Intelligence Company assesses Iran’s program changed into set again a couple of months, however after they dig out, they might resume in quite a lot of months. They’ve to rebuild electric and water provides. The CIA and the Nationwide Intelligence administrators say the amenities had been destroyed, and it might take years to rebuild. Israel says the army program is about again a few years. What is the fact right here? What do you’re making of those tests?

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: You realize- you realize what, this hourglass method in guns of mass destruction is- isn’t a good suggestion. Keep in mind, we had circumstances 45 mins and so forth, that have been quite- fairly off spot. All of that depends upon your metrics, Margaret. In case you inform me it’s going to take them two months or 3 months, for what? 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper. 

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: The capacities they have got are there. They may be able to have, you realize, in a question of months, I might say, a couple of cascades of centrifuges spinning and generating enriched uranium, or not up to that. However as I mentioned, frankly talking, one can not declare that the entirety has disappeared and there may be not anything there.

As a result of, initially, as I- and I believe the intelligence- we don’t seem to be there making any army reviews, initially, however, out of the common sense of our dialog, it’s transparent that there was critical injury, however it isn’t overall injury, initially. And secondly, Iran has the capacities there; commercial and technological capacities. So in the event that they so want, they’re going to have the ability to get started doing this back. That is again- and I am sorry, fourth time, we need to return to the desk and feature a technically sound way to this. Another way, this may occasionally come hit us back, with regards to a scenario which isn’t smartly clarified. And this is a chance. We do have a chance now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood, and we can see if that chance is picked up through all sides. Director Normal, thanks in your time as of late.

DIRECTOR GENERAL GROSSI: Thanks, as all the time, a excitement. Thanks very a lot.